For whatever reason a series of articles concerning church
attendance surfaced this week. I posted one of them on my Facebook page, and a
small and enjoyable discussion unfolded.
I did not know who would respond, nor did I know how anyone would comment.
Normally, at least based upon my experience discussing this topic, I receive
comments from pastors or longtime church attendees. Normally, those comments
run the typical religious gamut of irate irrationality. This time was different…
so far. A (former) pastor did respond. To me, not just any pastor, a pretty
good friend of mine from college/seminary. He stunned me. He did not support
the church, he left it all behind. It’s not so stunning that people leave their
churches, it happens all of the time. Pastors on the other hand, they seem to
leave only amidst public scandal (eg. Jack Schaap et. al). To say the least, I
was intrigued. Others were as well, namely another friend of mine and the
former pastor, Aaron Carpenter. Aaron was a pastor (still is), who is now
attempting to reach the Seattle area. Aaron weighed in on the side of not
leaving church, but understands some of the issues plaguing churches today. He
decided to use my discussion as a jumping off point for a
blog article. He
raises a few questions therein, I’ll attempt to address them all.
Aaron leads off with the main questions at hand, “What is
church? Who knows anymore?” I’m not so sure about his answer, however. He
assumes that everyone knows it’s not the building, but the people, even if we
admit that the term is most often used to refer to a building. I don’t want to
pass on this point. Though it’s true most do pay lip-service to the belief that
the church is the people, they do not practice that belief. The majority of
those in the “church” crowd, both pastors and members, spend a great deal of
time telling people that they need to be in church, attend church, go to church
or some other form of be in church when the doors are open exhortation. If
there is a problem in someone’s life, quite often the comment, “If they were in
church this wouldn’t have happened”, is stated. Bottom line, church attendance
is primetime preaching. One simply has to attend during the set time, for the
set period, at the set place, or he’s not in church. I’m glad that many
understand, in word, that the church is not the building, but that’s not what
they practice. In this case, actions speak louder than words.
Aaron admits something that people rarely admit, that many
are leaving the church. In fact, the exodus is so large that the brand Aaron
and I would most closely resemble, Fundamental Baptist, seems set to vanish
with our generation. Be honest pastors and church goers. There is an enormous
age gap in your congregation. There are those who are 50+, very few 20-50 year
olds, and children. I don’t care much for “studies” or “statistics”, but in
this case, no matter the philosophical or theological bent, there is near total
agreement that once children become 18 year olds they are out of their
childhood churches. More damning for the system, is that those people rarely
come back, hence the current discussion. A recent article done by
shock-columnist Matt Walsh, a Catholic, illustrates the point. Church is boring.
It’s not boring because the service is traditional, as he says contemporary
services are also boring. So, don’t focus on how the show is run, the show is
boring no matter how it’s acted out. There is a deeper, and stolidly neglected,
issue here, but more on that later.
I can wholeheartedly understand where Aaron is coming from
in his Full Disclosure section. I was there. I was a teacher, coach, youth
director, visitation leader… in a church-school. By worldly standards, I was
somewhat successful too. One can find my name in the Who’s Who registry twice
for my work as an educator. I won two state soccer championships as a coach. I
was involved in a vibrant visitation program that, by faulty doctrinal standards,
boasted 500+ saved. The youth group I worked in boasted numbers greater than
most of the churches still in existence across America. I was set in the
Fundamental Baptist Circle. That’s what I knew, it’s how I was raised, it’s who
educated me.
Oddly enough, some of the constant praise that is heaped
upon Christian educators/leaders goes something like this, “We/They could be
doing this somewhere else, for much more money, but chose to serve for much
less.” For a while I believed this. I’m sure many others did and do. Aaron alludes
to the same thought when he commented about an increase in pay. It’s frankly not
true. This is not intended to sound bitter, please do not take it that way. Our
education, our work, our life within that circle is only useful within that
circle. When I came to that realization,
I was petrified. I knew I had to leave, but fear kept me in the wrong place for
at least a year and a half too long. My fears were justified when I resigned my
position, took an office job at a startup company that folded two months after
I moved to upstate NY , was unemployed for four months, and found a part-time
job at Best Buy. After that I moved back home to Virginia to try to reset and
start over.
The reality is that all of my education, my BA, my MA, my
previous positions did not mean much outside of the circle. If people were
honest, they’d admit this too. In fact, Fundamental Baptist schools do realize
this, and are now caving under pressure to accredit themselves. It’s an
admission of this reality. (See
more about what accreditation actually entails
here and
here). This opens up an
entirely different discussion which cannot be handled in this article.
Aaron is to be praised at least for admitting that a “leaving
the church as he sees it” viewpoint threatens his work. It is his self-proclaimed
vocation. But therein lies the main crux of the institutional church argument.
As he says, he’s spent 11 years working for a church, and he’s been paid based
upon the premise of I Timothy 5:17. Aaron rightly concludes that according to
the “Done” viewpoint his position as a salaried pastor would be abolished. That’s
a scary proposition, as I detailed above. He’d have to restart his life in his
30’s, but this time with a family to clothe, feed, and shelter. I appreciate
his honesty. I have no other reason but to believe he’s being honest when he
says that he shares some of the same concerns offered by the “Done” crowd, even
if he finds some of it frustrating (or scary).
Now for the meat. His questions.
How do you practice Ephesians 4:11-16 in your Christian
Life? Perhaps I’m not fully following Aaron’s line of thought. Is he saying
that Ephesians 4:11-16 can only be accomplished within a local church’s four
walls? I’m really not sure. If so, then how much of what is listed in the
passage is being done by one man in the institution setting? It seems that
Ephesians 4, as well as other passages throughout the New Testament illustrate many
people, who all have functions within the church. For instance, the Holy Grail
of the “Go To Church” crowd, Hebrews 10:25, states one another. Institutional churches
just don’t reach the standard of one another doing the ministry. How does the
terrible cliché go? 90% of the work is done by 10% of the people. Isn’t that an
illustration of how Ephesians 4 is not being done properly in the institutional
setting?
Since the question was, “How does the ‘Done’ crowd do
Ephesians 4, I should illustrate how we do it. We do it by actively
evangelizing the lost, we do it by actively discipling one another, we do it by
actively fellowshipping together. All aspects of Ephesians 4 are covered
therein. The key is that we are all
involved, instead of just one of us talking to all of the others. It’s not too
hard actually. In fact, it’s only possible in a smaller setting. I used to
think that the fact that institutional church failure to do this passage was
winked at by God under the “There’s no such thing as a perfect church” comment.
The problem is that mindset is damning in that it cheapens Christ’s commands
for what the church is and is to be doing. (I use the term church here in the
purest Biblical sense of the word, as a body of individual believers serving
Christ in communities all over the world).
I must admit that I have no idea where Aaron is coming from
by referencing Hebrews 3-4 in a church context. In context the passage is
referring to lost Jews, who need to enter into the rest of Christ. It’s all
about turning from sin and accepting their Messiah. Forgive my ignorance,
Aaron, if you read this, please enlighten me as to why you included this
passage.
As for I Corinthians 14, I agree, it is about corporate,
mutual member ministry. Again, one another as mentioned in Hebrews 10, which
you also reference. I Corinthians 14 can only be done well in smaller settings.
Once a certain group size has been exceeded, doing the commands within the
group become strained at best. I’ve never seen an institutional church of any
size, and I’ve been in both small and mega churches, properly carry out I
Corinthians 14 or Hebrews 10.
As for Hebrews 10, I mentioned in my comment thread that
this passage has nothing to do with going to church. In context this is part of
a whole. It is a message to the Jews (Hence the name of the book), about their
need to accept Christ. Church is just not part of the subject matter at all.
Hebrews 10 is even less so. Look at how the chapter starts and finishes. It
starts with a discussion about the Law, continues with comments about paying
for sin, then it goes into an evangelism call in verses 24-25. It is a call for
saved Jews to not forsake unsaved Jews, but to compel them to repent and trust
in Christ. It is of necessity not a church passage, but a salvation passage. The
chapter finishes by strongly encouraging those who know the Bible (Old
Testament) to see how Christ fulfills all of those promises, and believe on
Him.
Either
way, let’s play the Hebrews 10:24-25 game for a second. The passage states –
And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to
good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner
of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day
approaching.
Does everyone in your church exhort each other? It’s not
just the pastor’s responsibility. It’s everyone’s responsibility. The modern
pulpit/pew system does not allow for one another exhortation. It’s not a
command to go to church at all, even out of context. It’s a command on how to
be around other believers, once again, out of context. Most churches are filled
with gossip, bitterness, and hatred, let alone pride and apathy. In that
setting how do those churches fulfill Hebrews 10 or I Corinthians 14? Love?
Good Works?
Aaron’s next question is about who does the shepherding for
the Done crowd. He cites Acts 20:28-29 and I Peter 5:1-4 as support. Both
passages are fun for me.
Acts 20 is Paul’s final words of sorts to the elders at
Ephesus, as noted in v. 17. I Peter also
seems to be final words of sorts, for the book at least. The comments are also
addressed to elders. Now, the question is, who are the elders? Are they
pastors? Let’s use the passage that Aaron cited in I Timothy 5. In context, the
passage is written by Paul, an apostle, not a pastor, to Timothy, a pastor,
about how to treat Elders within his body of believers. Did you get all of
that? According to Aaron’s, and other pastors’, viewpoint, I Timothy 5 is about
how pastors should receive double honor (that is a salary in most cases). It’s
also about how they, the pastor/elder, should be respected as an authority. But
Timothy was the pastor, not an elder. The elders were those within Timothy’s group,
both men and women as the passage talks about both genders, who deserved double
honor because of the godly lives they lived. (a side note, if elders are
pastors, then women pastors are supported by this passage).
One other thing to mention from Acts 20, Paul sets up the
way that a ministry worker should support himself in vss. 33-35. He should
work. Paul worked, he was a tentmaker, as we know. This exhortation, however,
is quite practical in that a ministry worker who takes no money cannot be compromised
by making a living by serving Christ. Note Paul’s further comments about work in
II Thessalonians 3 as well as how Paul said that his taking money would hinder
the gospel’s sake in I Corinthians 9:12. So that leaves me begging the
question, why do Pastors take a salary?
I Peter 5 is a bad passage for Aaron to use in terms of
vocation, that is, being in the ministry and receiving a paycheck (v2). But let’s
put that aside for a second. Peter was an elder, but we never see him as a
pastor as such. He is an apostle and certainly an evangelist. He claims to be
an elder here as well, and I’m sure that by the time this was written, he was
an elder. I say all of that to illustrate that this passage is to older/wiser
in Christ people of the church. This is a how to act as an elder exhortation,
not a call for pastors to some sort of spiritual authority.
On the same topic of authority Aaron references Hebrews 13:7
and 17. Again, this book is written to the Hebrews, and so much of this chapter
is full of Jewish comments. Priests are mentioned, sacrifices are mentioned,
the Law in various forms is mentioned. What is not mentioned are pastors. I do
understand the idea that the pastor as a ruler seems to fit in here, but it
does not anywhere else in the New Testament. That makes me wonder if there is
another way that this passage must be viewed. The biggest question for me is
that before Christ’s throne is my pastor going to be standing next to me? That’s
how some pastors view it, not necessarily Aaron mind you. The reality is that we will all stand alone
before Christ to give an account, so please, don’t think that you and your
church will be behind your pastor, who then gives an account. That’s, quite
bluntly, nonsense.
Ultimately, and I don’t mean to sound too pious, we all give
an account to Christ for what we choose to do for Him. We are guided by the
Holy Spirit, as Christ said in John, and as John further expounded upon in I
John 2:20 and 27. I don’t need a man to “shepherd” me. That sounds to me like a
curiously Catholic trap. Whether or not it was intended to be stated as such.
As for evangelism and further fellowship thereafter. The
current church model is horrifically broken, let’s be honest. A typical
visitation program has well less than 10% of its members attend. Out those who
do attend, they may seek one on one conversations with strangers, but more than
likely the idea is to visit those who visited the church service. In so doing a
paltry number of people may be reached at all. Of those who “get saved” very
few ever attend that church. Even fewer than that are ever “discipled” in any
Biblically meaningful way. Witnessing should be one on one, and discipling
should also be one on one. We do that. It helps to create very strong ties and
much deeper fellowship.
Baptism and “Communion” as you term it are extremely simple.
We baptize after we see fruits meet for repentance. Communion for us is so much
easier than for those within the institutional setting. We do not fellowship
with (knowingly) lost people. We do our best to not invite lost people to fellowship
with us at all, based entirely upon the many exhortations to not have
fellowship with unfruitful works of darkness, cast out the leaven, etc. that
you well know. So, when we partake of Lord’s Supper, it’s a joyous occasion
much unlike the somber dirges found within the organ-plagued institutional
church.
Those with spiritual gifts are to use them. I’ve touched
upon “one another” more than enough already. How do your churches handle them?
Do others get to lead the Sunday service, or preach, or teach on Wednesday
night?
I confess that I do not understand the point of the “that
was then” comments in Aaron’s article. Most often when I hear that comment it
is, well that was then in the New Testament, we aren’t in a nation which
persecutes Christians anymore, so we can meet freely, openly. Warning!
Christians are to be salt and light. They’ve never been accepted by the world.
If you feel that we’re free and open to serve Christ, then you’ve never boldly
proclaimed the gospel for any meaningful period. Christ promised His followers
in John 15 that they SHALL suffer persecution. This illustrates the point that
modern American Christianity, which suffers little or no persecution, has lost
its savor. That, or Christ is a liar. You choose.
What did weddings and funerals in the Bible look like? Is
this even a Biblical argument? Come on now. The lost get married and have
funerals in churches all of the time. Cultural norms do not equal Biblical
practices. Besides, weddings and funerals within churches as we know them today,
though not necessarily evil, is a hold-over from the Catholic Church, who used
to institute those things for monetary purposes. (Check Charlemagne and William
the Conqueror, both tools of the Papacy, out for something of an idea here).
Mathew 18 and 1 Corinthians 5!? If churches practiced this today,
then no church would have more than 15 people therein. I mean, really, truthfully
practiced this. Which sins, what level of sin, what excuses for sinning, are
given in practicing or not practicing discipline? Let’s be honest, church
discipline in the institutional setting is near impossible, which is why it is
rarely, if ever done. Don’t kid me, I was a Navy brat, so I’ve been to many
churches, north, south, east, and west.
I’ve seen it all, and the exception does not disprove the reality that
discipline, if it happens at all, only happens for the “Big” sins, whatever
that means. Those sins may go punished, meanwhile all the other “little” sins
go unpunished or unnoticed. It’s so easy to hide in the institutional church,
that’s why.
Finally, missions is questioned. I don’t want to fellowship
with people who don’t have the same zeal for reaching the lost as I do. We seek
out places where the lost are – hint, that’s anywhere, and, yes, sometimes we
do what Paul did, which is, visit religious establishments to pull some out. It’s
not hard to find lost people, which really makes me wonder why Aaron asks the
question in the first place. What’s hard, is finding people who are truly saved
with whom to fellowship.
Aaron, this is to you directly now. I’m glad that you’re
angered with the things you mentioned in the end of your article. I’m more
hopeful that your church does not experience those things. I can understand why
you’re not “done yet.” I believe I’ve answered most of your questions, and
perhaps raised a few more. I think you’ll honestly consider them, research
them, and pray to God for wisdom. You asked
at the end, “what are you prepared to do to help the rest of us?” Well, for
one, I opened up the conversation. I raised the issues, answered your
questions, illustrated what I perceive to be flaws (if my narrow viewpoint is
worth anything), and tried to illustrate a better way to do all the things you
mentioned. My question for you is can
you honestly, biblically support church as it is being done now? I fear you may
not, because you have a lot to lose. I no longer have anything to lose, it has
already all been lost. That has allowed me much greater freedom to serve
Christ.
